00:01.88 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Hello, and welcome to another episode of Leaders Perspective, where we spotlight visionary voices shaping the future of healthcare, care technology, and community-centered innovation. I am your host, Ratna Deep, co-founder of Tech Variables. 00:16.27 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Today's episode is titled Medicaid Innovation in Action and we will be exploring the intersection of Medicaid transformation, community engagement, cross-border collaboration, all through a lens of equity and impact. 00:31.52 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Joining me is someone who truly embodies these values, Ramon Paolo Lamas. Ramon is a social impact architect with over a decade of experience in public health and health care. 00:43.77 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee His work bridges the gap between communities, researchers, and institutions to advance equitable, person-centered outcomes. He brings a rare combination of grassroots insights, health innovation expertise, and stakeholder alignment, especially in areas where trust, authenticity, and lived experiences matters most. 01:04.46 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee He holds an MPH from the Keck School of Medicine at USC and a background in biological sciences and biomedical engineering from UC Irvine. He's also an ambassador-replicant dedicated to demystifying research and uplifting community voices in shaping the questions and applications that truly matters. 01:24.68 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Ramon, I'm honored to have you here today. Welcome to Leaders Perspective. 01:29.32 Ramon Thanks for having me. This is exciting. 01:32.51 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee yeah So Ramon, ah let's begin with your journey, right Ramon? You have ah ah probably one of the most interdisciplinary profiles I've come across, you know, grassroots organizing, health promotion, research engagement, community building and whatnot. 01:50.87 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee What really inspired you to focus your life's work on social impact in healthcare? care And how did you ah kind of how did your public health roots shape that path? 02:01.52 Ramon Sure. um So I guess it's hard to describe my career because it's because I've just been following interest areas. um I think, yeah as you mentioned, in in college, I was actually, it was probably like a, um it probably forecasted my my future career because I couldn't really decide what major I wanted to do. 02:25.34 Ramon ah In college, I was really interested in and various things. So I started off as a computer and computer engineer major. boom And quickly, as I figured out that it wasn't my skill set and and it wasn't enjoyable, I switched to environmental engineering and then biomedical engineering. 02:44.62 Ramon And so I got a ah good taste of all the various disciplines and, I guess, application areas for engineering. um I think the the calculus was a little tough for me. And so I ended up switching to pre-med bio um biological sciences. 03:02.75 Ramon um My family, my mom um is a is not a practicing physician, but she went through med school and residency. And so i think healthcare care was always um something that I feel like that was... 03:18.11 Ramon ah I felt like during my own journey in college, I was focusing that was more aligned with the social sciences. And so public health, I discovered ah later on in my career at the end of my um college experience, and I really aligned with the the prevention aspect of it. 03:40.20 Ramon um And so I started getting more involved ah in public health. um And that's what took me towards community work, right? So during college, I was really involved in in policy at the University of so ah California, Irvine. 03:54.66 Ramon um There was a ah tobacco kind of advocacy group that we we were advocating for smoke-free policy on campus. ah That led me really for community, specifically, you know, the the local community and the university community. 04:09.71 Ramon um After undergrad, I went to, I was a health educator. um And so I was i was teaching, you know, residents, community residents around substance abuse. 04:23.92 Ramon um That really got me more interested in and furthering my education and in public health. And then I enrolled at USC in the University of Southern California for a master's in public health, um where I was exposed to health services and health policy you a little bit more. 04:40.57 Ramon um And that brought me to DC. And then you know a Career kept evolving. and and um I think for me, it just I was more aware of what I didn't know and I wanted to learn more about what I didn't know. um so I kept pulling that thread and and that's what I continue to do. 05:05.93 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Okay. ah I mean, Ramon, ah I mean, there's a lot of buzz around Medicaid innovation per se, right? You know, I've been hearing value-based care pilots, SDOH reimbursement models, ah but very few people bring both community and system perspectives to it, like you do perhaps, right? 05:29.25 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee In your view, what does medical innovation look like? And kind of how should we define success beyond cost savings if it makes sense. 05:36.17 Ramon Sure. Yeah. Um, I think, I think the, the concept of value-based care is trying to get outcomes, right? So ultimately, ah paying for outcomes. Um, I think in, as I was kind of reviewing and prepping for this conversation, 05:53.33 Ramon I think it's hard right now with the existing system, right? Everything is, is paid paid for by service delivery, right? So if you go and get an x-ray, then that's something that a provider can bill for and the insurance companies pay for. 06:08.32 Ramon Um, but if I don't think we're, we're at a point yet where we can, uh, we're getting paid to maintain or prevent, um, you know, I guess tragedies from happening. Right. So, um, 06:22.18 Ramon from a public health perspective, I always see it as an issue of if we prevent things from happening, how do we get compensated? Right. And so i think until we shift our, um the financial incentives around healthcare, which I think value-based care is moving towards. 06:38.74 Ramon And I think our, our transitionary step is where we are with managed care, right? So um for or older populations, Medicare advantage has been i think successful at, at, 06:51.91 Ramon at least addressing social needs, to unmet social needs, social determinants of health. um And now that a lot of states are moving into managed care for Medicaid, low-income populations, I think that capitation um forces or, I mean, at least encourages health plans to start looking at preventive care. 07:14.53 Ramon One of the projects that I'm working on is with Forward Slash. It's ah it's a social impact startup. And we are a direct service provider for Medicaid MCOs. So they they provide us with a ah contracted rate um and we provide housing and food and transportation to our Medicaid patients who were formerly homeless. 07:36.84 Ramon um And that's, as you may know, as your listeners may know, um homeless Medicaid patients are probably the highest cost, highest utilizers because they go to the ER um frequently um Because of their unmet needs. So I think true value-based care, we might, I think we're heading that direction. i just don't know. 07:58.61 Ramon There's so many systems that we have to get over before really transitioning into that. 08:12.11 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee no Okay, you you touched upon one of the real life use cases, right? um 08:20.85 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee I also wanted you to kind of share, share a few other real world examples or case studies that reflect innovation, which is done right, where community voice and system design came together effectively. 08:34.70 Ramon Yeah, I think from, i though i couldn't really think of ah examples and from a healthcare perspective, but i I do see it happening um ah with a company called Aidkit. So Aidkit, it's a... 08:53.40 Ramon they built a platform to deliver direct cash assistance, right? So there's there's certain like programs of like relief, disaster relief, um and any other kind of emergency and or ah during pandemic, um there was a lot of focus from philanthropic ah funders. 09:12.36 Ramon Hey, we need to provide people um some money just to be able to really stabilize and get to the next level. Aidkit has been able to do that. I think that as a case study, I feel like offering people money and having them design how to use it, how best to use it, is probably the closest thing to personalized intervention ah that we can get to because essentially they're saying, hey, we can trust you. 09:42.89 Ramon If we're going to give you $1,000 a month of direct cash subsidies, whatever you need to do and do it. And I think a lot of the studies from an impact perspective have shown that folks not only stabilize, but then are starting to purchase houses, right? So they're they're building wealth through this um this help, this temporary help for 12 months. It's usually a 12 month kind of assistance program. So I like that model and I don't know how to 10:13.66 Ramon exactly shifted into healthcare care because of the reasons why I described earlier, it's, I think it's still tough. And another reason that it's a little bit more of a barrier in healthcare care is health plans are typically on a yearly cycle. 10:27.22 Ramon And if you only have a year to get outcomes, then sometimes that's not feasible, right? So a lot of like, for example, from a nutrition, food side of things, 10:39.97 Ramon Behavior change is takes a long time. And so you're not going to get the food outcomes or the health outcomes from food interventions as quickly. And I hope that we can transition into more of a two to three year window. 10:54.53 Ramon um And I think that we can and we can further, our um I guess we can get closer to actual value-based care through those models. 11:08.57 Ramon Okay. 11:09.81 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee I think you, I mean, one of the questions that I have in mind currently, as you as you kept talking about your second point, right, about health plans and their role in all this all these things, right? 11:25.45 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee So you have worked in spaces that involve, if I may say, collaboration between pairs, providers, CBOs and research institutions, right? What are the biggest barriers to meaningful cross-sector collaboration? 11:40.96 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee And how do you move from coordination to shared accountability, if it makes sense? 11:42.95 Ramon Yeah. um um I don't know if anybody's doing it well yet, but I think um kind of the ecosystem approach that we're taking here. And then I moved here from Durham. So I'm in the Cincinnati area for this client, and this project. 11:59.80 Ramon In Durham, there's a nonprofit that is essentially a backbone organization, right? So they they formed a physical space. They said, hey, we we want to recruit organizations that are serving the city residents that ah are needing help. um So now it's called ReCity. 12:20.10 Ramon They're trying to do a collective impact. So how do we break silos, work more closely together for these shared missions? um And I think it's it's collaborating with those organizations, right? And I think from a I guess from my experience, trying to bring all these folks in a room, I think it's it's it's challenging because relationships takes a long time to develop. And so um I moved to Durham in 2014. And I think now I finally have the 10 years of building relationships. 12:52.48 Ramon I can get to the right people at the table and to have these discussions. I do think there might be quicker ways, right? You have, I think, super connectors that you can tap into and you can speak a common language. I think when I describe my role, it's it's partly translating, right? Because I'm going to one stakeholder in a certain sector and I'm having to understand their motivations and their out their metrics, right? Their their success metrics. 13:18.71 Ramon And then going to another stakeholder and trying to put the pieces together as to why we should be having these conversations. And that's why um When I describe my work, it's it's it's kind of like an architect because you have to you have to kind of build a story based on the stakeholder that you're in front of. And and I think... 13:40.15 Ramon um There's a lot of work behind that, right? It's really understanding each stakeholder, really getting to know them and then figuring out what will resonate with them to bring them to the table for a partnership. So it takes a lot more of us um doing this cross sector work. And I think there's a lot more conversations to be had. But I think the biggest gap and and you mentioned this, the communities themselves, especially the under-resourced, they don't believe in the systems anymore, the structure. 14:08.24 Ramon And so how we have to engage them. And I think one way that we're doing that in in my different projects is we're addressing their social needs first, not asking any questions. We're just saying, hey, what do you need? How can we help you? 14:22.09 Ramon And then using that as a way to engage them for the future. 14:23.31 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee you 14:24.85 Ramon Right. So building their trust through ah to meeting their needs first and and putting them in front and then you know, layering on top of that, if you're ready for a conversation for more, like, can you help us figure out how to help more of folks like you in the community? So um we're trying to do that through a stewardship relationship trust building, rather than just straight like, hey, recruit. 14:51.00 Ramon And then, you know, it's not, it's not, we don't want it to be extractive. We don't want it to feel extractive. So 15:03.82 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee I mean, it looks like you're doing something which is different from what, I mean, what the approach is in general, right? I mean, I think it's a little bit different and I guess, I really hope that you guys will get some good results out of it, right? 15:21.14 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee I mean, that... I mean, I would like to shift our focus a little bit to the technology side of things, right? 15:24.16 Ramon sure 15:27.98 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee You know, at Tech Variable, we often talk about building digital tools that don't just digitize processes, but empower action. 15:38.35 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee if i the So I know you are thoughtful about the role of technology. where do you see tech especially you know these data platforms analytics ai you know gen ai you know all these things playing a transformative role in medicaid ecosystem and where do you think it often falls short 15:45.48 Ramon chair chair 15:55.79 Ramon Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. And I think, um you know, I've been thinking about this a lot. I think before this, I was working on um my own kind of startups, and I focus more less on the technology and more on the the actual like service and the kind of the the value, right. 16:12.75 Ramon um But I then, you know, with with all the the AI, um you know, the startups that are building and all where everything is moving to, 16:24.19 Ramon I quickly had to re i guess reassess and reevaluate my stance on technology. And I think that it's still potentially powerful, but then it's also potentially, um it could create more disparity, right? So I think the reason why I've been jumping into a lot of these conversations more is how do we design it so that it's equitable for more people? 16:49.82 Ramon um especially as you have a lot of, you know, super brilliant people building this stuff. Do they know enough when they're creating the algorithms that could be inclusive and equitable for more populations? Right. And so when from my understanding, very low understanding of tech. 17:10.49 Ramon you're making assumptions, right? And so that's what the the AI or any of the algorithms do is make assumptions. And I think there needs to be more conversations on these certain assumptions, because especially in healthcare, care there's a lot of nuance. 17:23.77 Ramon And that nuance could be the difference between, you know, let's say for predictive analytics, did you use a data set for a specific population that was not really engaged, and you don't really know much about them, but you made assumptions based on other populations. So um I think that there, we can get better from understanding the nuance and then applying it to technology and then using that to scale. I think that's the easiest way I can explain um ah where I think the field should be going. 17:56.13 Ramon But I do think tech, like even coming from a lot of nonprofit clients that I've had in the past, they are so far removed from tech and like operations and industry. 18:08.03 Ramon The scale is super small, but they're getting amazing results from that small scale. So how do we apply their ability and expertise in the relationships and then put like tech enabled? 18:21.62 Ramon um How can we enable them with tech and empower them with tech to grow? and really share share all their successes. I feel like there's all a huge um data piece that that a lot of nonprofits are missing um that would help them share their story about impact. so 18:46.11 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Yeah, and I get it, Ramon. You know, it's not just the bigger picture. It's this this these micro nuances that actually determine the kind of outcomes, either it's population outcome, patient outcome or whatever you call it. At the end of the day, it's the micro nuances that you include within your data sets, right? 19:05.93 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee uh also uh one of the things that you mentioned is equity you know health equity you know community equity you know equitable outcomes and whatnot right so what are some examples where tech has truly enhanced outcomes or equity in ways that were co-designed with communities probably 19:26.79 Ramon Honestly, i haven't seen it yet. Right. So I've only heard in discussions. I haven't seen it applied. And I think you and i had conversations and we connected through LinkedIn from Hallie Techo's podcast. 19:40.33 Ramon I feel like the the conversations that they're having um in that podcast, I think with the leaders that she's invited, I feel like that's the direction a lot of healthcare care innovation should be going, right? Because if you, and I think taking a step back, Medicaid innovation is, I don't think it it has been a focus yet. 20:03.63 Ramon um And I think you, as you know, from a tech perspective, they're building solutions from admin side, right? So there's a lot of like focus on admin, like process ah versus, you know, 20:16.09 Ramon what's what's the potential really, what's the the really, like, I guess, disruptive value that tech can bring? And I don't think we're there yet. And I think that, I think the sep the division is, or the potential disconnect is, 20:32.98 Ramon the value to the patients. Like we're, if we can co-design, I feel like that could get us to a next level versus right now it's really all like, Hey, can this EHR systems like be interoperable? Can we share data across systems? 20:47.37 Ramon It's more infrastructure. It's more process and operations based rather than like, Hey, what is great for the patient? And ah ultimately um you've probably seen this, um, from a clinical aspect, they're doing like longevity medicine, right? 21:01.27 Ramon So you have a genetic, you know, person, part of the team, you have a physician, you have a fitness person, and you have a nutritionist all under your team to optimize your health. 21:02.72 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Thank you. 21:11.61 Ramon What if we could bring that same kind of, you know, spirit um for Medicaid populations that really need more You know, i I think they need more resources and I don't think we're quite there because we haven't figured out the financing. So um i think that is the potential. um And I'm excited to continue trying to have conversations with leaders to say, hey, there's a market here. 21:36.44 Ramon It's not a it's not a ah free service. It's not a charity. This is there's a market here and value could to be created here. 21:49.56 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee ah this is this is great ramon know we i personally have worked uh in the Medicaid space for a long period of time via of course ah project that we did within the Illinois community, right? And we we have worked with SDOH data, we have worked with you know Medicaid data and whatnot. We have worked with the payer systems, FQHCs and all these areas, right? 22:17.74 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Now, I know that now what all yeah we both have discussed or rather you have kind of well put your points forward, those have mostly been on very niche you know things, right? 22:30.79 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee If we really... zoom out a bit, right? Where do you see Medicaid headed in the next three to five years? Are we on a path to greater person-centered and equity? 22:43.45 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee You know, rather person-centeredness equity or are there ah structural shifts still that is needed to get there? 22:49.88 Ramon Yeah, and so I think from my understanding of, of um you know, the the current climate from from the administration, um i think there will be a focus, a shift from... 23:02.43 Ramon So there, I think the huge focus will be on um employer-based ah health plans, right? And so i think ah from what I hear and understand, at least from some of the the conversations that Holly's been having on her podcast, there's gonna, there's this, a new concept called ICHRA. 23:21.17 Ramon So it's an individual contribution health reimbursement arrangement or health something arrangement, ICHRA, I-C-H-R-A. um that puts a cap on for small businesses between, i think 20 to 500 employees. 23:38.37 Ramon It helps them. um It helps them control their costs for healthcare care because healthcare care is the biggest like operating expense ah for any business, right? So how do you cap ah healthcare, care your healthcare costs and, and Icra is, is I think, 23:58.22 Ramon there're there's the conceptually it's it's trying to do that by saying, hey, you are going to, as an employer, I'm only going to give you employee. my employee It's at let's say you're the employee. 24:08.99 Ramon I'll give you $10,000. You can purchase your own insurance through the the um ACA exchanges. And then potentially if there's any money left over, you can purchase health related, you know it's kind of like an fsa flexible spending account. you can Whatever you deem necessary for your health, ah purchase it through the exchange plus you know all these other providers. 24:34.46 Ramon I think that's it's an interesting model um and it shifts i guess it shifts the the ah engagement or the it makes patients or employees in this case, consumer, 24:49.82 Ramon more proactive, right? So they're making their own decisions, right? Based on what's right for them. And I think this, um putting that back onto them, I think we would get as a consumer, we would get more 25:02.80 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Thank you. 25:05.07 Ramon um, I think educated, we would get more health literate on like, Hey, how does this work? What should I be doing? How should I be planning my healthcare care versus, Hey, I know I have insurance. I'm just going to do X, Y, and Z, and it might cost more. But, um, I feel like that shift my to individual responsibility might, um, help us. Um, and another policy thing is, um, as you may have heard, um, 25:32.49 Ramon ah RFK from HHS secretary, he's he's he's trying to focus on nutrition. So I feel like nutrition is also um potentially going to help. 25:43.47 Ramon um So I think those two things for the future of Medicaid, I feel like those two will need to be part of our strategy moving forward. But I do think that therere from a broader sense, it's going to be about evidence-based and 25:54.71 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Thank you. 26:01.25 Ramon effective programming, right? So they're not just going to fund everything. It's like, hey, what is driving outcomes, but also saving money? And I think those two things, if we can focus on that from an innovation standpoint, um I feel like as long as we can tell that story from ah and ah from a startup or a community-based organization, if we can kind of lead with those two things, I feel like there's no reason why um we can't keep doing the work that we're doing. 26:36.06 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Yeah, so ah on so on a similar note, you know 26:43.18 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee how do you envision research institutions evolving to better include ah patient and community way voices, you know, especially in Medicaid populations? 26:51.10 Ramon Yeah. um Well, I think startups like us, we're able to do that because we can we can talk to our patients directly and get that feedback and and and kind of revise and and iterate. 27:01.89 Ramon um ah From a research perspective, I feel like there's there's this there's this very niche area of research called community engaged research. ah used to be called community-based participatory research. 27:13.52 Ramon I feel like they're 27:16.98 Ramon there's there's a lot of, I think there's a lot of opportunity there, but I don't think that they're having the conversations enough, right? I think it's, hey, it's this project's coming up and then they have three months to build relationships versus, hey, how do we really find the folks that are talking about this and concerned about communities and then kind of using them or partnering with them to facilitate these conversations on a broader level, right? 27:31.03 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Thank you. 27:43.18 Ramon So ah And I think that part of it comes down to compensation. because like We can go to meetings, um you know folks like us, professionals like us, we can go to meetings, we can either pay ourselves or our companies will pay for it. 27:58.25 Ramon But for folks, because that's our job, but for patients who need to be working, and especially for Medicaid, they might be unemployed or they might be working two or three jobs just to get by, 28:11.49 Ramon it's they're not going to they're unlikely to participate or engage in these these conversations and but they need to be part of it. So how do we budget to pay them for a full day? And like, how do we start paying them for their insights and their lived experiences? 28:28.67 Ramon I think ah a few years ago, I was putting together this concept of like, if you're going to share your data freely on, you know, Facebook or social media, Maybe there's a way we can say, hey, we want to partner with you. give We're going to give you a smartphone. We're going to give you $200 a month or a few hundred dollars a month. 28:48.36 Ramon Share all your data with it. Proactively share it with us. And maybe we can create something from those insights. Because I think from this conversation, Medicaid patients specifically, there's there's a lack. 29:02.98 Ramon I think there's a huge lack of non-clinical data. right So outside of self-reported surveys, outside of you know conversations with the social worker or care coordinator, I don't think we know. 29:15.52 Ramon Once they leave the clinical walls, once they leave the FQHC, hey, we don't know anything about what you how you live your day-to-day life. I mean, we can make assumptions, but I think assumptions um are limiting. Yeah. 29:35.00 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee I agree. I agree. You know, let's, uh, um, you know, also talk about, 29:43.51 Ramon Yeah. 29:44.87 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee I mean, it's a final question from my end, Ramon. You know, for many of our listeners, you know, who are founders, healthcare leaders, policy thinkers, maybe, who want to do work that's truly impactful. 29:58.31 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee What's your message to them on how to lead with equity and build programs or solutions that are rooted in the realities of communities themselves? 30:03.99 Ramon I mean, I think that the easiest thing is go leave your office or leave your, you know, cubicle or leave your, you know, home office and, and go talk to somebody, go really do customer discovery, like try to experience what it's like, um you know, living in somebody else's shoes, volunteer, a homeless shelter, go, go where they are. 30:25.24 Ramon And then just observe, even if you're not comfortable with talking to folks that are Medicaid, that are formerly there, that could be homeless currently or housing insecure or, You know, if if you don't feel comfortable interacting and engaging directly, just go to an FQHC and just sit there or go to a homeless shelter and just sit there and observe. 30:46.34 Ramon And I think we can all learn more by being actually in the setting ah where um they live. and And if we, I think if we all took a step back as founders, instead of just having a lot of these meetings, just going out into the environment and understanding more, 31:03.61 Ramon rather than saying, hey, we have these preconceived notions of what they need. It's like, no, yeah I mean, if anything, we need more customer discovery if we're actually going to solve problems and bring value to these communities, right? And I think I'm hopeful um that folks um hopefully just actually step out of their own kind of ah lives and then try to put themselves in other people's shoes and have conversations because I think um that's the only way we can really design better solutions. 31:45.04 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee I couldn't agree more. Ramon, thank you so much for this truly rich and grounding conversation. 31:47.47 Ramon Yeah. 31:51.16 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Your work is a powerful reminder that systems change is only meaningful when it's anchored in community trust and shared ownership. For our listeners, if you're working in Medicaid transformation, health equity or digital health, I hope this conversation challenges you to go deeper, not just with your tech, but with your intention as well. 32:12.55 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Ramon, where can people follow your work or connect with you? 32:12.81 Ramon ah Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm definitely out there. ah And I don't really have other social media. So like and LinkedIn would probably be the best choice. um One of the organizations I work with is forward slash FWD slash. It's a startup, health health impact startup um and ReCity in Durham. So any of those places, I think those are are worlds that I live in. um And so, yeah, looking forward to future discussion. Thanks for having me on the on the show. 32:49.21 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Yeah. And with that, thank you all for tuning into Leaders Perspective. If you found value in this episode, please share it with someone in your network and subscribe for future conversations that bridge tech, care and impact. 33:02.60 Ratnadeep Bhattacharjee Until next time, I'm Ratnati Bhattijarji. Stay well and stay intentional. Thank you.
